Episode 80: The Other Side of Divorce

by | Last updated: Jun 27, 2024 | Podcast

“My kids are so lucky [that I] have Sharon […] I would never have done this [so peacefully] without her.” – Tania

I have something extra special to share with you this week… Three of my long-time members from inside The Decision are sharing their real-life stories from the other side of divorce.

Charles, Rachel, and Tania have been part of my membership program for more than three years, and together we have an important conversation about the opportunity for personal growth after an affair, what it’s like to “nest” with your ex-partner, and how to care for & develop yourself through the process of divorce – and after!

This is a beautiful conversation (originally ONLY offered as a *bonus* call with other members inside the program!) But I invite you to listen to this candid back-and-forth to hear what it might be like from the other side of what you’re considering right now…

Please Note: This episode was originally recorded as a *bonus* call inside The Decision. Charles, Rachel, and Tania agreed to share their stories publicly on the podcast. Enjoy!

Listen to the Full Episode:

What You’ll Learn In This Episode:

2:38 – Meet Charles: recently divorced & relearning how to grow in relationship to himself
5:36 – His affair taught him a lot about what he really wanted
8:09 – Meet Rachel: It’s not a straight line from “the decision” to “the end” to “what’s next”
11:31 – Rachel applies the tools (even in “the wobble zone”)
13:50 – Meet Tania: The demise of her marriage started with an imbalance in parenting
16:05 – How Tania & her ex-husband continue to share finances & housing
19:54 – “My kids are so lucky [that I] have Sharon.”
23:58 – How you care for & develop yourself through divorce really matters
30:35 – What they wish they’d known before making the decision to divorce…
34:02 – You can learn how to trust yourself again…

Featured On The Other Side of Divorce

Thank you to Charles, Rachel, and Tania – members of my membership program, The Decision.

Struggling to decide whether to stay or go in your marriage? Book a Truth & Clarity Session.

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If you have a suggestion for a future episode or a question you’d like me to answer on the show, email us.

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Book a Truth & Clarity Session with a member of my team. We’ll discuss where you are in your marriage and explore if there’s a fit for you and I to work together so you can make – and execute – the RIGHT decision for YOU and your marriage.

Welcome to the Loving Truth podcast, where it's all about finding clarity, confidence, and peace in the face of marriage challenges. And now, your host, relationship expert and certified master life coach, Sharon Pope. This group of people reached out to me and said, hey, you know, we have some things we could share. And I was like, oh, say more. Tell me what you're thinking. And we had a good conversation.

These are sort of, if I was going to say, these are my ogs. These are my ogs. These are people who have been in this membership or around me for years now. And so I feel like there is some wisdom that they can impart because we all hear things differently from different people. And it's one thing when I share something with you all, it's a whole nother thing when you hear it from someone who has just walked through this path and they have been where you are now.

Call it six months, a year ago, two years ago, even today. Right? It's a whole different thing when you hear it from someone else going through it, as opposed to me who went through it, but more than a decade ago. So here's where I want you to think about this. If you are in divorce differently, this is going to be super relevant for you. If you are thinking of, gosh, I don't know.

I don't know whether I'm going to stay or go. Sometimes we like to know what that path of divorce looks like to help us make our decision. And so these folks are just a little bit further ahead of where you are. And even if you are like, look, I am in my marriage. I'm in it to win it. I'm in marriage 2.0. I'm going to do all the things I'm going to try really hard.

It's also helpful to just hear other people's experiences with their relationships. And even though they've made a different decision than you have made or have made so far, I promise you, you're going to get something from just them sharing their lives and their hearts with you. These are good people. Introduce yourselves, if you would, please. Just give us a sense for where you were, where you are, and how you're doing.

Anything along those lines? Just take a few minutes to tell us a little bit about yourselves. Charles, I want to start with you. Okay, so I'm Charles, one of the few guys in the. In the program. I've been married for over 35 years and have two children who? A girl and a boy. One is 25 and the boy is 29. It's probably very relevant to say that he has profound and multiple learning difficulties.

Having had, um, been starved of oxygen at birth, I think that's probably relevant. Um, which means that whenever he is at home, I need to be there, too, because he needs lifting, um, onto the toilet and washing and looking after. There's a lot of care that needs to go on there, I guess. I joined the decision program about four years ago. I had. I'll come back to that in a minute.

But I had. I was. I was reading one of Sharon's books on a beach in Corfu. I'd gone. I'd gone alone. I then wrote at the end, she left a little address on the end, so I sent an email saying, thank you. That was the most helpful thing I've ever read and really spoke to me. So whether that got me on the mailing list or whatever, I then began to see pretty well everything on.

On Facebook that Sharon, that's when I began stalking you as the world expert on Sharon Pope. But perhaps Rachel would disagree with me on that. And it was a tremendous book, and all the books are available in the program. There's a plug for you. I've been married a very long time, focused a lot, an awful lot on our children, particularly our son. Any of you have got a child or special needs, you'll know that that is a 150% job in itself.

I had a busy working life as well. And I suppose, if I'm really honest, the physical side of the relationship wasn't what I wanted. But I take ownership of the fact that I never managed to raise, that. I didn't have the tools. I didn't know how. How to do that at all. But I kept moving along, didn't address it, didn't talk about it. And then I met an old friend who was single, and we ended up having an affair.

And I take responsibility for that, too. I think that's very important. But I had wanted some kind of future with this woman. She didn't really want a future, but with me. And that was an extremely painful time for me at that point. I had left home for the first time, and eventually I left home for the second time, but I'll come back to that in a minute. And I found an affair never leaves you in the same place, but it found you, in a sense.

And I think Sharon said, I think last week that you don't. Nobody goes, or very few people go looking for an affair. It's something that happens when other things are not as you'd like them to be. And I suppose the about was also, by size, being painful in talking a lot, my desires and what I wanted in life. And I suppose what the affair taught me was I'd never really invested in myself.

I've never really sought to grow and to know myself well, to have all the tools to have a good relationship. And so I did leave home a second time, but I'm now nesting because we live in a very long house, and I'm watching Susan's at the other end of it as well. And I have very gently, very gently, started dating again. So that's a very early days. I can't answer many questions on that.

Has probably known much more better than I do. And why have I stayed in this community? I suppose I've stayed in this community because I want to. I continue to want to grow. I have had so much value out of this community, and I find that I'm. One of the things that happens to my failure is I've taken up running and do a lot of running, and I found huge value in that community.

And this community here has been absolutely amazing for me with Sharon and Rochelle and Maggie and others have really helped me to grow as part of a community. That's the kind of place that I grow in. That is a very gentle introduction. I hope it's not too long. No, that's perfect. Thank you, Charles. And thank you for being willing to share that part of your life, particularly about the affair, because I know that that can feel super vulnerable, speaking of masterclass and vulnerability.

Yeah. So thank you. If you. If you have a community, you have to trust them in the end. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Rachel, I would love to hear from you. Hello. Hello. Hello. So I'm Rachel, another Brit. We're all on the Brits this evening. So I've been in the program three years, and, in fact, it's just about exactly three years. So that's. So it's really interesting to work that out.

I've been married about 15 years. We've been together about 20 years. What? Two children, a boy who's about to turn 18 at the end of March and a daughter who is 13. And they're upstairs, and they weren't listening. And, of course, now I've mentioned them, they'll be. They'll be listening. So, yes, I've been in the program three years and decided to. To divorce about two and a half years ago, so.

And I think as we hear from so many people in the program, we became, over the years, more and more disconnected. I think, Charles, as you're saying about having children, you do have to put a lot of work in, don't you, when you've got children? But to precy. I think I was fed up of asking for things to be different and then nothing changing, you know? And you keep asking.

Keep asking the same questions, keep doing those things the same way and then expecting things to be different and never did a lot of stonewalling, a lot of arguing. He did what he wanted to do, and I allowed that. I didn't set my boundaries. And, yeah, I thought that it would be all right that when the children were older, I'd also have a social life. But you are.

And so then we got to Covid, and I was working in healthcare, and he worked from home, and I was writing my MSc dissertation supporting the children, doing all the things. And he kept disappearing or having to suddenly go away for work when he never did. And we're in a pandemic. He had asked for counselling, and I had always said no because I felt that I would have to do all the work.

And he just wanted me to behave differently. And I did do it. I set it up and we went, but he lied through it, and he refused to engage. And the counselor said to me, if you don't leave now, you never will. And so I found Sharon, I found your program and became very, you know, I think about stalking. I think we think we probably all stalk you for a while, and then we.

Then we sign up and then, you know, here we are. But it was really important to me to apply the tools as I went. So I showed up every week. I applied the tools. I did what I needed to do, and it was important to me to know what I wanted and to move towards it. So I did everything that I should. So we sold the marital home about 15 months ago, and I bought somewhere with the children.

You can see a very white wall behind us now, which wasn't that color when I moved in. So that's a nice white wall. And he moved back with his parents. And then we began to spend time together. And at this point, I saw what his friends were seeing in him, and I mistook that for new information. And it wasn't new information. It was the way that he shows up his friends.

So it was important for me to know that. And so at that point, we tried a reconciliation, but because it wasn't your information, that didn't work. And I am really proud of myself at that point for setting my boundaries and honoring my boundaries. I communicated them really clearly to him. And when he stepped over them. I said that they were non negotiable and so the reconciliation didn't work.

And also, it's important to say that during that point. So both, both before we sold the house while I had moved into divorce differently I did take legal advice so that I knew what I was legally entitled to so that I could be fair and calm and kind and move into divorce that way. Because as we're all here, I really. It was really important to me to do this differently, to be calm, to be kind, to be considerate and also to do things as cheaply as possible.

The solicitor said to me that if we wanted to fight, we could do it for 40,000 pounds. I don't know what the, what the equation is on your side of the pond, but 40,000 pounds each, we wanted to do it politely and calmly. We could do it for 2000 pounds. Well, you know, there's a new brainer. So. So, yeah. So really, that's. That's my. My background. Yeah. Rachel, thank you for sharing that.

I think that thing I've. I appreciate about you is that you do always, like, you've consistently taken the tools and applied them and applied them. And even when you went into what I would call the wobble zone, which lots of people do it's to be expected that it's not this straight line of I make a decision and I end the marriage. It doesn't happen as cleanly as that.

And so sometimes we have to kind of circle back and go, let me just make sure. But you didn't lose sight of what you wanted and needed in your relationship and you honored yourself and that in the process. And so 100%, I'm really proud of that. And I would never have been able to do it without the tools, ever. Yeah, that's cool. That's really. That's super cool for you.

Tanya, you have joined. Welcome. Please introduce yourself. Tell us about where you've been and where you are and how you're doing. All right, so my name is Tanya. I've been, let's see, I have some notes too. So I met my husband in 99. We dated for about seven years and then got married in 2006. Had our first kid, who's now 17. Then we had our second kid about four years later.

So I can kind of go through all of that fun stuff. But right around probably my son's third grade year, that was when he just needed a little bit more attention, help, social skills. And so I went and learned everything that we needed to learn. I asked my husband to help kind of step up with the parenting, step up with the adulting, step up with behaviors. Just really step up and grow with us.

I guess, looking back, he either wasn't capable or didn't want to. And so that put a lot on me. Just overburdened as a parent, and I just, you know, I didn't do everything, but I felt like I was doing everything, and I wasn't getting the support. And my kids and who they become are really important, and so it pretty much are, I guess, demise of our marriage. Kind of started with our kids and how I felt like we had just different parenting styles, different parenting everything, and then we kind of.

Then I kind of looked at him and I and said, wow, this is kind of across the board. So I had actually told him about three weeks before COVID that I was wanted to end our marriage. This was before I met Sharon and the whole group. I joined the group. So that was March of 2020. I joined the group in January of 21. So I've been around probably as long as Rachel, too.

I think we probably joined around the same time. So it's been three years. I'd say in that three years has always been fun, just like everyone else learned. I just couldn't have done this without Sharon and team. So at that time, my younger daughter decided she wanted to play sports about 300 miles away in California. So he and I decided to kind of nest. So the first year, he and I came back every three days, four days for a couple days.

So we nested. I lived downstairs, he lived upstairs. My son and him stayed. I think that really gave him and me more information on whether or not he could really step up, because I was always seen as the overburdened, nagging woman who wanted to control everything. And Sharon helped me with all of that. And so, yes, it was that, but it was also a lot more. You know, he is on this earth to do things, you know, for himself and not to do for anyone else, and he has every right to do that, and so do I.

And so just with all that information, we really knew. I really knew that that wasn't how I wanted to parent my kids. So that second year, she lived down away 100% in southern California, and so I had even more time to spend nesting, give me more opportunities, and so really decided that that was. It wasn't. Our relationship was definitely going to end. And so my kids and I have moved to Minnesota from California in June of last year.

So as a family unit, my child, he was, I guess, my older one he wanted to move as well. It was for my daughter's hockey, so she really obviously wanted to move here. Financially, it was the best thing. And so now, once a month, he and I fly back and forth. I stay in my primary residence in California, and he comes to Minnesota. The keys and the doors are always open.

In fact, the kids actually really did want to see him a lot more. So we all were in our family pajamas, matching family pajamas for Christmas, and we are doing this very cordial. He needs me with his kids. I want him to be with his kids. The kids need him. My kids are 100% better off with us under two roofs. We don't fight. We actually don't really plan to financially separate because of.

It actually just affords us a lot more to be able to do this financially. We'll probably do that in maybe a couple years, but we've decided I trust him wholly financially. So I guess the other thing is just dating. Yeah. There's. There's been lots of fun in that area. We could have a whole class on that, couldn't we, Tanya? Yes. Yes, we could. I think I started off what I thought was the right time, and then there's lots of heartache, and now I think I set my boundaries way more in what I need, and so I just don't get hurt because I don't enter relationships that.

That truly don't serve me. So I think, yeah. And I'd say it's just like, charles, I stay in this program because I only have my own lens of how other people think, how relationships are, and I certainly need everyone's lenses, and Sharon is so good about showing us everyone else's perspectives, and I just keep learning all the time. Sometimes I can speak in front of her. I know what she's gonna say.

And most of the time, I absolutely. You know, it's just. It's a lovely program, and I could never, absolutely do this in a cordial way with him. And my kids are so lucky to have Sharon. I'm lucky. But it's my kids that have Sharon, and they don't. You know, I think they've come on the program once or twice, but this is. This is about. I would never have done this the way that we've done this if it wasn't for Sharon and my kids, because I wouldn't have left him if it hadn't been for my kids and feeling good about that.

But Sharon's the person who's taught me that my kids are. My kids will be fine. Oh, my gosh. I love you, Shannon. You make me cry. No one's ever said that to me. My kids are better because of Shannon. It is. My kids are the most important thing. And if I didn't know, they weren't going to be fine, and you have given me my own strength to know that I'm going to be fine.

They're going to be fine, and everyone is absolutely going to be fine. In this program, if you just apply the stuff and it's scarier than anything you've ever done, but you apply it and you come out. I've never been happier in my life. It's not easy, but I've never been happier, absolutely never been happier in my life. I wouldn't have thought that two years ago, three years ago, and, yeah, you just trust.

You trust the program, and you're going to be fine. All right. I agree. I agree. Can I say something about my children? Actually, I want to add that in as well. Is that all right to jump in there? Sure. Yeah. So my oldest friend, and we've known each other since we were 16, she came to stay. She lives sort of 4 hours away from where I live, and she came to stay a few weeks ago and she asked the children how they were, and I'm just going to.

I've made some. I'm just going to read what they said. So they. She asked how they were, and they said that they were learning from mum about boundaries and confidence and that mum no longer says yes when she means no. She honors her boundaries. Dad doesn't do boundaries. Don't make me cry. But with mum's support, we can still love him and say when we can and can't see him.

And he gets upset by this, but we know this is about how he is feeling and not about us. And they know that I want them to see him as much as they want. And I've encouraged them to communicate their needs with him. And I only step in now when they ask me to. So, for example, he wanted my daughter to go to Spain with him, and she just didn't want to go without me.

And both have said how much, Palmer? How much happier they are with the three of us living here together. Yeah. So I also say thank you to you because I also couldn't have done that for them without you and without this program. That's huge. That's huge. I mean, I. This is what I mean. Like, where I started this conversation with. I tell the stories of some past clients where their kids are actually thriving on the other side of divorce.

And people, I think sometimes they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's for those few. That's for those few people. But the reason why so many articles, I feel like, you know, if you google, like, how do kids fare during divorce, it's not like there's not a lot of great stories. But I think that so much of that comes from how we show up in the midst of that. And so that really, I know you guys are giving, you're giving me credit, but, like, that doesn't happen without you and without you showing up for you and without you prioritizing your kids and doing the hard thing, that sometimes it's just being loving when you don't feel terribly loving.

You know, lots of people say, I'll do anything for my kids, but will you love your ex spouse? Will you be kind to his partner when you're kind of salty that he's moved on before? You will. You know what I mean? Like, we say, we'll walk in front of a bus, but will we just be kind when we don't feel like they deserve it? They don't deserve kindness.

I joined the program to make a decision about my marriage. But, like, Tonya, you were just saying. I've also learned so much more than that. And, you know, I'm. I'm well qualified. I'm senior in my career. But I used to care what others thought about me, and it didn't occur to me not to care. And, of course, that's one of the things that you, that you have taught us, and one of the things that I'm able to teach my children.

In fact, I can hear my daughter upstairs, and she's just said, yeah, you know, you've got to respect yourself. So I don't know if you're talking to one of her friends and she's talking about respecting herself, so. Yeah, I know. So, actually, for me to be able to show up better is essential for me. It's. But it's also essential for my children. And I'm just thinking, there have been many occasions at work when I've been thrown under the bus and it's been nothing to do with me and not the one to blame, but I have never stood up for myself.

It's easy to blame me. And I was just thinking about my, you know, my lizard Humphrey. Who would allow that and ruminate over that? And it's still name. Still got a name. And so, yeah, so that thinking about the kids, it's just really, really important. There's probably more. I was going to say, but it'll come back to me. Yeah. Tanya, what were you going to say about your kids?

Well, I think it's. I think it all comes full circle. So one of the challenges that I've always very recently, it's probably always in our relationship, Dave and I, he. I would always want him to care for me in a, like, a loving way, maybe in the way that I wanted to. And there's been times that I've been really sick with my colitis, right? I've been really sick or like, I'm wearing a brace because something happened and I never, he never once was aware of that.

Never once said, can I help you? Like, oh, it hurts. Or when you're prepping for a colonoscopy, which is annually, you know, and Monday was his first colonoscopy after turning 50 something. And I always wanted my partner, I always wanted Dave to show me that because I think that's important in relationship, to show empathy, to show caring. And that was one of the reasons, like, I want my kids to learn that from their own partner and to expect that and to know that and to love that.

And I had, as we divorced, I had to resolve that, that I had to provide that for my kids at 50%. And hopefully that's going to be enough for their own relationships, for themselves. And there were lots of text messages on Monday night or Sunday night about how difficult this prep was. And I kept on asking, like, the kids, like, make sure you ask your dad, I'm going to text him.

I instructed him through everything, and it was really difficult to care for him when there's been very little caring in that way after 20 something of these and all the other kind of physical things that I've had. But I wanted to show up for my kids to say, hey, like, this is how you love people. And I wanted them to see that I still love him in the way that I can care for him.

But I also didn't take ownership. I did take ownership, and I wasn't resentful as I was giving him. I could say I love him like just the same person. I want him to get through this. I'm happy. I gave him all the advice. I just didn't like. I didn't take it on and was resentful and gave it to him. I gave it to him out of love and because I care for him and I want him to feel good about it.

And my kids saw that, number one, you can act like that to someone, and we are always acting nice to each other. But I gave a lot to him when I felt like he still had never given to me that in 20 years. And he. So, I mean, that 50% I still can give to him because we are cordial and we are loving to each other. And I wanted my kids to still see that, that you can do that with an ex.

And so there's lots of times that I do that, despite my own problems with being resentful towards him, you know? And so I think my kids can see me, that. They just can see that you can still, you know, have a relationship with your ex and have people in your life that you may not. That may not be giving everything that you want, and you can set those boundaries if this isn't working for me.

But I can still show him love and respect and that it's not over just because, you know, he's out of my life in that way. And that that's how you treat other people, right. And I think I would have held that. Held that resentfulness, but I actually showed how much I cared for him, even though it wasn't returned in the same way for so many years, you know?

So that's fine. It was hard. But if you were not. If you were not conscious, you wouldn't do that, right? You would be like, screw you. You were never there for me. I've been through this 20 times. You were. You know what I mean? That's how most people will react and respond, even though we might think we would do otherwise. The hurt sort of play lays out front, and the ego sort of takes control.

Unless you're consciously saying to yourself, like, in your case, hey, I want my kids to see that two things can be true simultaneously, that I can care for this person. I might even love this person, and I don't want to be in my most intimate relationship with them. Those two things can be true at the exact same time. I think I repeat those words at least once or twice a week when I have a challenge in my own thoughts and feelings, and it helps me get through that.

I mean, I think the other thing is, no one's ever on this planet to serve you, Tanya. I hate that, Sharon. But I love it, because I always remember those are, like, my two Sharon things that. And then there's a million other ones that I write down and, like, they're just perfect. But I think. I think. I wouldn't say I've mastered it, but whenever those. I'm very aware of that exact thing, and I say, is this person on this earth to serve me.

No, no, no. Probably not. We all have our favorite Sharon quotes. I promise you. You all could write a book. All of you can write a book about Sharonisms. All right, I have a question. We're going to take a new direction. I love the conversation around the kids. That was super touching. Thank you. And you all had, you know, when you went through this, your kids, like, Rachel's kids were younger, I would say Tanya's kids were middle teenagers.

And then Charles. Charles's kids were not kids, they were adults with one of them with special needs. So I want to switch gears to what's one thing that you wish you would have known? So put yourself back three years ago. What's something that you wish you would have known then when you were making the decision about whether to stay or to go, that you could sort of impart from this hindsight perspective?

Now, let's start with Charles. Gosh, a few things I think there is. There's no way around it. There's only a way through it in that sense. And you've got to keep addressing your lizard. And I just. I think it's just keeping putting 1ft in front the other and moving through the process, really. Yeah. To go much further back. I just wish I had worked on myself so much earlier in my life.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. As you said, often, nobody teaches you this stuff about relationships, but they should. They should, yeah. Rachel, what about you? I similar. I trust the process, work through the lessons. And as you said about me, apply them until they make sense. So I need to apply them until they made sense in my life. You're right. Hearing everybody else's stories is really, really important, essential and really useful.

But how was I applying them? How were they making sense? Trust yourself. You've got this. You've absolutely got this. Write the wobble list. That's really important because, as you say, I didn't do it the first time around. So when I thought I was getting new information, that wasn't your information, keep thinking about your 10ft ahead, but also know what your. What your long term aim is. So for me, it was about being a good co parent, as Tonya, as you have said, it was about being a good co parent so that our children would invite us to the things you want your parents at.

So they wouldn't say, oh, we can't invite mum because dad will be whatever. We can't invite dad because mum will be whatever. And that was what I was paying attention to. Yeah, I think that's for me, that was off the top of my head. Cool. Tonya, what would you say that you wish you would have known then? That you now know what I would have wanted to know then five years ago, three years ago.

Absolutely. That you're going to be okay. You learn skills and you take all these skills and you apply them, like Rachel said, and you won't fall. Like, you learn how to learn to be better at, like, sorting through feelings, sifting through feelings, like, bouncing back all the hard times. Like, I wrote all these things. Like, you just. You learn more personal strength because you start to know yourself, and so you become aware of.

That's not the situation I should be in with that new partner. Or you know what? I recognize that in my husband. How do I want to react? Or I recognize that in my kids, is that the behavior, is that what I want my kids to learn? And so, like. And then even, like, finances, because, of course, it's children, finances are the most important. Like, when I got into this, like, you're, as Sharon says, like, you're not.

You just work at Starbucks. If you have no money, you're just gonna go work at Starbucks or target you. You will make it through financially. You will make the choices that you have to do. You will never not have a roof because you trust yourself and you always have your own back. And you can't rely, typically on anyone else. But, like, everyone in this program has this and you won't.

You have yourself. And once you know, you can do that, every situation, that's difficult. Yep. Difficult today. Yep. How do I get through this? Do I. I'm going to learn from this. How is this unfolding? I really trust the universe, that it gives me everything that I need and the situations to learn from and, yeah, that's that. I think learning that this is a temporary pain or this is a temporary good, and there's a lesson to be learned, and it's okay.

I get tired of the lessons. It's tiring. But it's like, you know, sometimes you just want to get away from it. Why can't something be easy? But if you don't, you're going to be unhappy. Like, my soul is the happiest in the world, even though I still am learning every day. And as long as I follow my soul and I am okay with being these uncertainties and having these uncertainties, I trust myself.

Every day isn't as certain as we thought it was going to be. And that's okay. And you're going to get to the next day. So trusting yourself, I think that's such a big deal. Oh, go ahead. I think probably to go back those years again, I've had a bit more time to think. I think boundaries was probably what I didn't have before. I don't think I had any boundaries at all.

If somebody wanted something, I tried. Tried to please. Yeah. Yeah. Being able to, this idea of trusting yourself or having boundaries, it's like when you know that you have your own back and that's really. It's so critical because it impacts everything else downstream from that. It's not just about your divorce or about your marriage. It's about life is going to life, and I'm going to have what I need to be able to respond to that.

Even when it's hard, it's not going to take me down, it's not going to take me under, is that I can stand here in the midst of a storm and it won't be fun always, but I can weather it. And no matter what that is, it's such a big deal that having your own back, and that's not a concept that we're taught either of what that looks like and what the benefit is of it and why you should reach for it.

So I appreciate you both. And honestly, the storm is just one thought away, too. One new thought of feeling better about yourself. And you use that darn model when you start to not feel good and you change your thought and. And you feel better, and then you don't even have those thoughts in the first place. And so it becomes easier. The more you use the model, the more you learn all these skills to say, you know what?

Like, I just had meaning, put meaning to something that I shouldn't have put meaning to. And so it's. It's all these skills, one by one, that all come in through the experiences, through being with the program, listening to other people in the community and how they've resolved it. Yeah, you just. You can't do it alone, and you certainly don't want to do it without Sharon. If you're listening to this podcast because you're struggling to decide whether to stay or go in your marriage and you're serious about finding that answer, it's time to book a truth and clarity session with a member of my team.

On the call, we'll discuss where you are in your marriage and explore if there's a fit for you and I to work together so you can make and execute you the right decision for you and your marriage. Go to clarityformymarriage.com to fill out an application. Now that's clarityformymarriage.com.